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Newbie
Total Posts: 15
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Well this topic has been in hot debate ever since scientists developed the technique of cloning. However is this going against god's will that a man can only be brought into this world by being conceived.  Just a thought....  
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 2044
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God also gave man free will, and if it is given should it not be exsorcised to its fullest potential?
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Member
Total Posts: 103
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if a person is cloned, does the clone one feels and think exactly the same as the original? Do u believe that everyone has a spirit in them?
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Very Senior Member
Total Posts: 744
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It is unlikely that the clone can go through the same life events that the original has, most probably the thinking will be slightly diffrent...
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 6430
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people seem to forget that identical twins are clones. the cell splits after conception, so the genetic material is usually identical in both cells.
besides, if there were a God/god, how would we know what his will is? 
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 1964
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quote:
Originally posted by Pieter:
besides, if there were a God/god, how would we know what his will is?
scriptures...
bible...torah...Quran
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 1964
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quote:
Originally posted by Pieter:
besides, if there were a God/god, how would we know what his will is?
scriptures...
torah...bible...Quran
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 1740
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The question is only relevant under the basic assumption that there is a god whose will we can go against. Non-issue for atheists...
Anyway, even with that basic assumption, it is still impossible to go against god. God is all-powerful and all-knowing, so presumably he would have known exactly what we would do, from the moment of creation to the end of time, at the moment of creation. Since he knew, and since he's all-powerful, he must have wanted the universe to be exactly the way it is now. So all is proceeding according to plan, and there's no cause for alarm.  
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 2973
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quote:
Originally posted by Morpheus:
The question is only relevant under the basic assumption that there is a god whose will we can go against. Non-issue for atheists...
Anyway, even with that basic assumption, it is still impossible to go against god. God is all-powerful and all-knowing, so presumably he would have known exactly what we would do, from the moment of creation to the end of time, at the moment of creation. Since he knew, and since he's all-powerful, he must have wanted the universe to be exactly the way it is now. So all is proceeding according to plan, and there's no cause for alarm.
if the world ends tomorrow, thats his plan too then. lol.
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 3879
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going against god?... I tot we have been doing that for a long time...
Look at the Earth, besides the fact it is still round and revolving/rotating... The landscape and climate have changed !!!...
I dont support cloning in human... since the research in cloning animals is still not 100% done... I heard the last few tests they did, those animals which are cloned, died a few years later because many abnormal health conditions and stuff...
Imagine you are a cloned human... Later you found out that you are just a part of an experiment and you will die anytime... how would you feel?
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 6430
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quote:
Originally posted by reverend:
scriptures...
torah...bible...Quran
your perception dude. everybody has a different idea of what God's will is, I have yet to decide which one is more believable.
either way, can someone tell me where the scriptures say cloning is wrong? the last time people said we were 'playing God' was when electricity was invented. I don't remember any scriptures about lighting and I can't recollect any scriptures regarding cloning. we are creating life after all, not destroying it.
deathknight is right though, I don't think we are ready yet. we need to experiment more with animals and then embryos before humans. but in the future? absolutely. we are in the age of biotechnology ...
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 1740
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quote:
Originally posted by [Hope]:
if the world ends tomorrow, thats his plan too then. lol.
isn't it?
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 1425
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hell i wouldnt want my clone walking around if i had one, what a loss of identity
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 7839
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quote:
Originally posted by joschan18:
if a person is cloned, does the clone one feels and think exactly the same as the original? Do u believe that everyone has a spirit in them?
Nope. I dun believe in spirits. We are just meat and flesh that moves..
Actually, all of us are the same person I believe, expect that we are born in different times, different body..etc..and encountering different events that results in our current personality..
And if you start thinking like this, you should already realise that your own personality is constantly changing..so why is the current you "so" you? What is you?  erm..get what I'm trying to say?
Cloning..I think it is ok to experiment and research on cloning technology..but by cloning a whole person, we are not quite there yet..the possibility of success is pretty low..
and the typical human thinking is that, it is cruel and very WRONG to end a "person" (human) life (even in the state of a fortes) no matter how much the being is gonna suffer..this makes it even worst for the clones..
The "being" created may be deformed..etc....and if the clone is sufficiently developed to become smart enough to be self-aware; and maybe he would also start fearing death (instinct), he would then be suffering..(if anything went wrong that is..and currently, the chance of that happening is kinna high I believe..)
I'm constantly wondering, why that we humans are able to kill/eat animals in the most cruel ways without even blinking an eye, but to kill an unborn child (quick death) is considered cruel...I'm not saying that one is right and the other, wrong..Actually both are neither right nor wrong, I believe.
And we usually don't give that much thought to what we call animals compaired to the ones that are the same as us..
It all boils down to the human nature of biasness against whatever that's "different"..Race, Religion, Sexes, height, age, fat, skinny, ugly..etc..though intelligent can easily overcome instincts...
what's so different about those animals from us? Yeh..they look really different, can't speak, and acts and behave differently..etc..But they can still think, and feel pain..and have emotions...so basically they are just dumber humans in a different body, and social background.. haha
And I'm soooooo out of point.. But I just feel like saying this, to show that "humans are actually not that special".. Humans are just plain humans..another form of life on earth..
Come to think of it, what I've said isn't really out of point. The same thing goes for cloning: we must not clone humans, as humans are "special"...etc...while animals can be experimented on first, as they are not humans..
I also hear ppl saying "no one deserves to die/suffer like that"...oh ok, now go check out on how we raise animals for food (caged their whole life in really cramped cages, no freedom..etc), and how they are butchered when the time comes..etc..
I'm not saying that eating meat, or killing animals are "BAD" (neither is it good too  )...I'm just trying to ask one question..is human lifes that important, and other forms of lifes not as important? Is life itself that important?
My answer to all these is neither. Life is just life, nothing more and nothing less...whether it is special or not its all just perceptions..and its actually very natural for us to have perceptions or fear death (to see life as something special)..
And I'm just trying to voice out what I believe..
This message was edited by Protector on 12 Aug 2001 11:28 PM
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 7839
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The clone, if it's a success, will be just like a twin brother of the DNA donor.. The way he thinks, his personality, would largly be influenced by his surroundings...Those can't be cloned.. Unless we are finally able to decode the human brain..
quote:
Originally posted by theThinker:
It is unlikely that the clone can go through the same life events that the original has, most probably the thinking will be slightly diffrent...
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 7839
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Actually cloning should not be describe as playing god.. coz I dun think "god" create life by cloning...This is human's technology man...god's technology should be far more advanced I suppose.. 
quote:
Originally posted by Pieter:
your perception dude. everybody has a different idea of what God's will is, I have yet to decide which one is more believable.
either way, can someone tell me where the scriptures say cloning is wrong? the last time people said we were 'playing God' was when electricity was invented. I don't remember any scriptures about lighting and I can't recollect any scriptures regarding cloning. we are creating life after all, not destroying it.
deathknight is right though, I don't think we are ready yet. we need to experiment more with animals and then embryos before humans. but in the future? absolutely. we are in the age of biotechnology ...
This message was edited by Protector on 11 Aug 2001 04:40 AM
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 7839
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Why? It would be just like having a twin brother..that's all..
quote:
Originally posted by cabal:
hell i wouldnt want my clone walking around if i had one, what a loss of identity
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Member
Total Posts: 103
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I think cloning can only be used for special scientific experiment which i dont see anypoint in doing that, But Mass production of humans is a definite NOT for me. Actually, I have read from some website that there is this very secretive and rich and powerful organization that is controlling the governments of the world, do u guys or gals think that they r the one behind all this cloning things. Maybe they wanted to rule the world with their clones!!!!
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 6430
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quote:
Originally posted by joschan18:
Actually, I have read from some website that there is this very secretive and rich and powerful organization that is controlling the governments of the world, do u guys or gals think that they r the one behind all this cloning things. Maybe they wanted to rule the world with their clones!!!!
yes it's a secret organization of elves and aliens trying to wipe out humanity. the voices in my head say that same thing ... don't trust anyone!
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Member
Total Posts: 103
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where got elves in this world?
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