Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 1646
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We have beliefs on ourselves, our Ego counterpart, our mental beliefs, our emotional counter part and our physical senses. This contributes much to our conception of Myself.
Okie, what happens whatever we are perceving now is probably from our mental faculty. The whole point is we are always evaluating with our senses, physical, emotional and mental, sub-conscious.. etc.
Perhaps, if our true identity is something that the body, emotions, mind, etc.. cannot even percieve and evaluate.
However, there is only one sentence which describe one as wholly as possible. I would describe one's true self as "I am what I am"
This message was edited by LightBringer on 18 May 2001 12:16 PM 
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 3807
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Posted @ the other forum but i'd thot i share wif u guys here 2.
Imagine if u had an ant farm and u did as it as u please. Sometimes if ur in a good mood, u'd spinkle some sugar dust to give the ants a treat. The ants wud think.."Wah lovely food is dropping from the heavens." Other times in a bad mood u might juz shake the any farm a bit, causing the tunnels to collapse...the ants wud be thinking "OMG its an earthquake!"
Each ant has it's own role, some are workers, some are builders, some are feeders, 1 is queen. But dun think that the queen is that lucky. No doubt she is fed by the workers and lives longer than them but her abdomen is so engorged with eggs that she is unable to move @ all . Her role is to lay eggs all days and nite. Imagine if ur in the toilet the whole day passing eggs?
So as an ant what meaning of existance wud u like to have? If ur a smart ant u might even ask the Human God the meaning of ur existance.
So tell me, what will u tell the ant?
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Very Senior Member
Total Posts: 456
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If I were the miserly ant I think I wouldn't even know the meaning of GOD..lol
Well if I were GOD, I'd tell ant that its just part of its evolution in this earth, at this particular time...to learn what an ant must learn before moving on....
Hey why don't you just use humans...argh! of all creatures use ants..."AntZ" was enough..
Well, say you use ants as an analogy, I will tell you too that once, we humans were just as foolish about GOD and meaning of our Existence. However we have come thus far to finally realise certain things about Life and Existence itself. Perhaps not exactly clear but definitely much clearer than the ancient people. Our advancements in terms of scientific, metal, physical, technology has made us evolved...
At least we won't think that an earthquake means the GODS are angry...
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 1740
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Well, if I were the ant, I'd take a look at the intrinsic meaninglessness of life and realise that either there are no gods or god does not really care. I'd be a sensible atheist ant and make the best of my life, enjoying whatever I can of it, seeing as it's the only one I'll have.
This message was edited by Morpheus on 19 May 2001 09:36 PM
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 6430
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quote:
Originally posted by LightBringer:
However, there is only one sentence which describe one as wholly as possible. I would describe one's true self as "I am what I am"
maybe I'm just being dense here but how does this tell me anything about my "existence"? I am what I am and you are what you are. in fact I've never met anyone who isn't what they are ... I'm just trying to make sense of the first part. I think what defines my existence is my self-awareness of my surroundings and my ability to alter them.
quote:
Originally posted by Hannibal:
So as an ant what meaning of existance wud u like to have? If ur a smart ant u might even ask the Human God the meaning of ur existance.
So tell me, what will u tell the ant?
Is this really a great analogy? no matter what the ant does, it will have absolutely no impact on what the human does. So why not just have a good time and help your fellow ants instead of theorizing about the benevolent human who causes earthquakes and sprinkles sugar?
Does the ant have some kind of a need for false hope?
quote:
Originally posted by Alpha Wolf:
However we have come thus far to finally realise certain things about Life and Existence itself. Perhaps not exactly clear but definitely much clearer than the ancient people. Our advancements in terms of scientific, metal, physical, technology has made us evolved...
At least we won't think that an earthquake means the GODS are angry...
have we really changed that much? our beliefs have certainly adapted to our better understanding of the physical world, but they are essentially the same on a basic level. humans have certain needs to believe in things (hope for example) and they'll do anything to fulfill that need. even deceiving their own mind if that's what it takes.
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 1740
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quote:
Originally posted by Alpha Wolf:
If I were the miserly ant I think I wouldn't even know the meaning of GOD..lol
Well if I were GOD, I'd tell ant that its just part of its evolution in this earth, at this particular time...to learn what an ant must learn before moving on....
Hey why don't you just use humans...argh! of all creatures use ants..."AntZ" was enough..
Well, say you use ants as an analogy, I will tell you too that once, we humans were just as foolish about GOD and meaning of our Existence. However we have come thus far to finally realise certain things about Life and Existence itself. Perhaps not exactly clear but definitely much clearer than the ancient people. Our advancements in terms of scientific, metal, physical, technology has made us evolved...
At least we won't think that an earthquake means the GODS are angry...
Which is better? To believe that an earthquake means that the gods are angry? Or to believe that gods cause earthquakes but for some unknown reason that only the gods know which they won't tell us and which, even if they told us, we wouldn't understand anyway, while still believing that the earthquake which kills hundreds somehow occurs for our own good despite the lack of evidence supporting it?
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 1740
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quote:
Originally posted by LightBringer:
We have beliefs on ourselves, our Ego counterpart, our mental beliefs, our emotional counter part and our physical senses. This contributes much to our conception of Myself.
Okie, what happens whatever we are perceving now is probably from our mental faculty. The whole point is we are always evaluating with our senses, physical, emotional and mental, sub-conscious.. etc.
Perhaps, if our true identity is something that the body, emotions, mind, etc.. cannot even percieve and evaluate.
However, there is only one sentence which describe one as wholly as possible. I would describe one's true self as "I am what I am"
I agree that you can define yourself as what you are, but first you have to figure out what you are, no? Just saying that "I am what I am" and letting it go at that smacks of laxity in self-discovery, it seems. It also accomplishes absolutely nothing in furthering one's understanding of oneself, I think, since one is still left with the question of "I am what I am, but what is the 'what' which 'I am' that 'I am'?"
My opinion is that the definition is simply too vague. It's like saying, "the universe is made up of space, time, matter and energy", only more vague.
This message was edited by Morpheus on 19 May 2001 10:27 PM
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Very Senior Member
Total Posts: 456
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Hmm well thought. I guess its just that everyone sees things differently, from a different angle.
Few people will be able to see things from a philosophical point of view, much less the spiritual POV.
Practicality seems a much suited trait in this world...
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 1740
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quote:
Originally posted by Alpha Wolf:
Hmm well thought. I guess its just that everyone sees things differently, from a different angle.
Few people will be able to see things from a philosophical point of view, much less the spiritual POV.
Practicality seems a much suited trait in this world...
The practical do seem to survive better than the not-so-practical, don't they?
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 1646
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"I am what I am" may not something or anything, within the physical, mental senses. How about a deeper existence of our very self.
What happens after death might reveal be a true first hand experience of whom we really are whether we are just brains and body or something else 
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Very Senior Member
Total Posts: 456
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quote:
Originally posted by Morpheus:
The practical do seem to survive better than the not-so-practical, don't they?
Perhaps...
quote:
Originally posted by LightBringer:"I am what I am" may not something or anything, within the physical, mental senses. How about a deeper existence of our very self.
What happens after death might reveal be a true first hand experience of whom we really are whether we are just brains and body or something else?
Hmm that would be to look deeper within the works or nature rather than what is believed on the surface, or better expressed, practicality
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 1740
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quote:
Originally posted by LightBringer:
"I am what I am" may not something or anything, within the physical, mental senses. How about a deeper existence of our very self.
What happens after death might reveal be a true first hand experience of whom we really are whether we are just brains and body or something else
True. NDEs do not count, since there is a (very strong) possibility that they're just hallucinations. 
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 1964
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i believe we existed because God decreed so.
morpheus too is a god...god of dreams n sleep
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 1740
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quote:
Originally posted by reverend:
i believe we existed because God decreed so.
morpheus too is a god...god of dreams n sleep
Well, this morpheus is an atheist who believes we exist because we exist.
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 1964
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roger that
u r the first atheist i know
my frens mostly are agnostic
kewl
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 6430
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now you know two 
agnosticism is just for people who sit on the fence 
This message was edited by Pieter on 22 May 2001 04:52 AM
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 1964
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hmmm..kinda of true actually
yo pieter
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 5442
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I am who I am is not a phrase meant for us ... lol (my opinion)
That phrase if it is to be used by us actually is a excuse cuz we ourselves dun even know our true origins and nature.
Humans are easily described as ... mortal Man.
And mortal man ain't perfect and never can u achieve perfection in ur life time
And reverend, God didn't decreed Man to be created.
He created Man Himself cuz of His infinite love, and for the sake of love, He gave us the freedom of choice.
This message was edited by Sigma on 22 May 2001 05:52 PM
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 6430
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quote:
Originally posted by Sigma:
I am who I am is not a phrase meant for us ... lol (my opinion)
That phrase if it is to be used by us actually is a excuse cuz we ourselves dun even know our true origins and nature.
I'm not sure you understand the quote. cogito ergo sum, or I think therefore I am. I am therefore I am is just derived from this. still not convinced? bible thumpers please refer to exodus 3:14. So either God is ignorant too (according to your explanation) or philosophers really do understand a little more than you think ...
quote:
Humans are easily described as ... mortal Man.
And mortal man ain't perfect and never can u achieve perfection in ur life time
I'm sorry but wasn't Jesus the perfect mortal man? you're right of course, perfection is impossible by anyone.
quote:
And reverend, God didn't decreed Man to be created.
He created Man Himself cuz of His infinite love, and for the sake of love, He gave us the freedom of choice.
again, a matter of opinion. I still don't understand how an omniscient God can give someone free will of course. Peter 1:2 certainly agrees with me. and btw, God is not pure love, it was God who created evil in the first place. (proverbs 16:4 if you need an example)
This message was edited by Pieter on 23 May 2001 02:06 AM
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Ultra Senior Member
Total Posts: 1541
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getting pretty religious/spiritual here. hehz this thread is interesting pretty theoretical or more spiritual, when i came in here i was thinking of maybe the thread would be some thing that brings us back to the scientific POV of how we were actually created or what made our existence.
but again, even scientists or professionals spend years finding out. what could i expect. I thought most christians would be atheists?
I never really thought of our existence, this thread is a real good mind workout. a question that bugged human since the beginning yrs, just my own 2 cts, think that how we appeared on this land is a myth, however how we existed till this very day, is due to our own achievements, how we evolved and our will to survive in this planet. the advancement in technology and medicine that actually improves our health and "lifespan"??? *shruggs* but it seems that we are bringing our own downfall as well through these advancements.
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posted Fri 18 May 2001 12:06 PM
